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Saturday, 11 June 2011

Losing a sense of proportion?

Fr Ray Blake has written a good post on how "And also with you" damages us. Meanwhile there is some really quite crazy reaction going on in Ireland. Recently, a group of Irish priests had a woman theologian along to say how the new translation was wrong and that refusing to use it would be like passive resistance to oppressive regimes. I wonder what grandma would think of this comparison: having hid in the coal hole from the Black 'n Tans, would she approve of comparing a more accurate translation of the Mass with her experience?

In the ensuing discussion (which, as we hear, had a turn out of even more than 25 people):
Words and phrases such as “dominance,” “control,” “incompetence,” “bullying,” “lack of courage” and “fascism” were used by many of the speakers.
We are not told how the words were used by the speakers but it is a fair bet that a hysterical description of the implementation of the new translation was involved somewhere along the way.

Another speaker, a priest, asked various rhetorical questions, the funniest of which was:
If a priest feels that it is impossible for him to intelligently read a prayer with 60 or more words per sentence, what is he supposed to do?
Answers on a postcard please (or indeed in the comments box - but no swearing.)

Read the full account at Independent Catholic News. It is so completely barmy it is entertaining. On the downside, though, the keynote speaker identified four moments in the life of the Church since Vatican II in which she thought that the Church had erred and we should campaign for a copernican revolution.
The first was the way that the Encyclical Humanae Vitae was implemented and, especially, the treatment which was meted out to those who raised questions about it. The second was the refusal of the Catholic Church in Ireland and right around the world, to face up to the clerical abuse scandals in the 1970s and the 1980s. The third moment she highlighted was the Apostolic Letter of Pope John Paul II – Ordinatio Sacerdotalis in which he stated that women could not be ordained to the priesthood. The fourth moment was the imposition of translation of the new Missal without adequate consultation.
To say that this lacks a sense of proportion (new translation on a par with child abuse?) really doesn't quite address the lack of judgement shown in this blind determination to trash the new translation.

On a lighter note: the other day I was at a meeting where a brother priest, an old friend (and someone with whom, let us say, I might not see eye-to-eye on all liturgical and theological matters) made fun of the new translation by talking about "And with your ghost."

I kicked myself afterwards for not responding "NO: it should be 'And with THY ghost.'"

12 comments:

davidforster said...

If a priest finds sentences with 60 words difficult, perhaps he should try switching to Latin - a language more economical with words, where the sentences may well be a bit shorter?

lxoa said...

Father, I recently came across the translations introduced in Ireland in 1966. They were also used in England/Wales and Scotland. I sent a scan to a friend; would you like me to email you a copy?

Shane.

Fr Tim Finigan said...

Yes please, Shane.

Sue Sims said...

My favourite bit in the report occurs right near the end, where we are informed that 'Obviously, the translators have not heard that “man” is no longer a common noun in contemporary English.'

Obviously the grammatically challenged person who came up with that comment has not heard that 'man' remains a common noun; I suspect he meant that it is now purely gender specific. Which is not, actually, true, though a lot of people would like it to be.

Since I wasn't a Catholic when the current translation was introduced, can someone tell me whether the same complaints (no consultation, the difficulty of accustoming oneself to new words, etc, etc) were expressed at the time? Or are all these criticisms (as I suspect) a coded way of objecting to the greater Catholicity and theological precision of the new translation?

Saint Michael Come To Our Defense said...

I was speaking with a female scientist at the coffee shop the other day...

She was quite intelligent, and was speaking in terms I could only briefly capture in my brain.

She was working in cyborg technology and was happily telling us of the day man-machine was to become common place.

"It is wonderful that behind it all, the hand of man will be seen moving in this creation"

"Oh, so you believe in intteligent design?"

I have never seen a woman hit the brakes in a pair of high heels as fast as that scientist did.

"Oh, no. I don't want to go there"

She and a majority of Americans have had their speak changed.

They speak the language of Satan, and not Holy Mother Church.

Change the language, change the heart.

*

Hughie said...

And I quote: "Obviously, the translators have not heard that “man” is no longer a common noun in contemporary English. Towards the end of the meeting a recommendation was unanimously adopted that priests and people avoid using the sexist language that pervades the New Missal."

Nuff said about the New Anglican Irish Church.

vetusta ecclesia said...

The bit that really made me laugh was this


What can be done to repair the growing division with Rome, who despite our service and particular competence in the practical area of liturgy, refused to consult us?

Competence in liturgy? In Ireland? Pull the other one!!

The Author said...

Listen up IACP and listen good: I welcome this amended translation, I am not confused, I am not angry in fact I am ecstatic! This move glues my backside to the pew a little tighter, I may not be the smartest, but I understand consubstantial (and if I didn't I would Google it and discover it's meaning in seconds), I am intelligent enough to understand that the word 'men' is not exclusive and means all - not just males. I will not struggle with a little insert - I will gladly use it as easily as I have always used a missalette, a parish newsletter and other paraphernalia that I can pick up in any Church porch on the way into or out of Mass. If a Priest has trouble with a sentence of 60 or more words, it is time for him to go back to school. There is more to punctuation than the full stop. Most of those who fret and whinge about the arrival of amended translation don't even use the one that is now in force properly; experience has shown that most of the clergy in this so called 'association' have no problem pushing and pulling words and sentences at their own whim, making the liturgy their personal possession in the misguided notion that they are serving the good of their congregations. This at best is misguided interference and at worst is the most pathetic kind of veiled old school clericalism.
You got one thing right about this being a pivotal moment because it is a moment when you get to decide to stay put and join us or push off and annoy someone else. Oh and one other thing - if you want to gain any credibility in the mind of those of us who take these things seriously, try to get some credible speakers and not some disgruntled has beens who openly promote dissent and childish non-compliance or silence tactics simply because they see nothing good with anything Catholic. Shame on you all.

Fr Seán Coyle said...

I posted this video from the 1950s on another site as a comment on the alleged 'sexist' language alluded to in the report on the ACP meeting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLlTlYfqQV4

AndrewWS said...

If a priest feels that it is impossible for him to intelligently read a prayer with 60 or more words per sentence, he really needs to learn English. Or go kiss the Blarney Stone. Most of the Irish people I have known were quite capable of talking in sentences that had far more than 60 words in them.

Genty said...

I wonder how many of the people in the pews these priests have consulted.

Mater mari said...

In answer to Sue Sims, I was a young mother with five children under the age of 6 when the Novus Ordo was introduced. We were given a draft copy and I remember squirming at 'Happy are those who are called to his supper' (and still do!). Were we perhaps less likely to confront church authority in those days? Or was it that I had other very important pre-occupations? I don't know but I certainly wasn't aware of any serious dissension.

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